Recruiting Essential Workers

Tom Finn:

Hey there, thanks for tuning in to the Talent Empowerment podcast. We're here to help you love your job. We unpack the tools and tactics of successful humans to guide you towards your own career empowerment. I am your purpose driven little host Tom Finn. And on the show today, we have my friend, Thad Price. Thad, welcome to the show.

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Thad Price:

Tom, great to be here. Thank you so much for the invite.

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Tom Finn:

We are thrilled to have you have an amazing company super cool and for those of you that do not know fad Let me just take a second to introduce you to this fantastic CEO For an Austin based company called Talroo now this organization is a data-driven job and hiring event Advertising platform, which is a bit of a mouthful But we'll explain what that means that helps businesses reach the candidates that they need to build their essential workforce So he provides leadership, strategy, guidance, conversations to all departments with more than 20 years of experience in supporting essential and frontline workers in recruiting and finding new jobs. What a cool market, what a cool company. We are gonna get into this in just a second, but as we get to know you Thad, what makes you different? Not your company, but what makes you different?

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Thad Price:

That's a terrific question. I think about this a lot. And I would say that the big thing that makes me different is I like to change a life. And what do I mean by that? When we think about hiring people, when we think about building a company, I'm constantly on the march to try to find an individual that can be successful, where you can change their life and give them more responsibility, give them more ownership than maybe they otherwise dream they would have.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, that's a fantastic way to think about the world. How do we help somebody? How do we lift them up? How do we help them on their way to live a better life for themselves and their community? I love the way you said that. So were you always this way? Or did you grow into this as you got older? Were you like this when you were younger as well?

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Thad Price:

I don't think I was like that when I was younger. It's trying to find what I really like to do and I love building things. And so, when I think of my experience, I was in product, I was in business development, I was building things and in my role now, now I'm leading and building a company. And that's a different skill. And I think when you think about building a company, so much of what it takes to build a great company is all about the people that you're able to attract, right? Great people grow great companies. And so when you think about that and think about the opportunity to build a company, it really is about ensuring that you have the team members to, um, to get the job done that you need. The other thing that I would say to that is in this journey of being CEO here of Tower, I've learned a lot about how a lot of the answers are in the details. You know, when you become, when I first became CEO, I had a number of conversations with folks and they said, you know, gotta be big picture, gotta be big picture. And what I find in the reality is that it's hard to really form the big picture if you haven't really dug deep into what's happening behind the scenes. Because that will help inform your big picture of where you can be successful and where you can grow. In order to do that, you have to have great relationships with your team members that they feel open so that you can have a candid conversation about the details. And in many cases, I think if you don't have the right team member to accomplish your goals, or in that situation be vulnerable enough to be able to have those specific conversations because maybe you change their life and there's trust that develops, that it's hard to really form that big picture thinking in order to achieve what you're looking to achieve in business.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, well, well said. My goodness. I think the depth that you look at the world is really interesting and that you've taken to your organization. I do want to go there for a second because what you're doing is really unique. Most recruiting,  talent acquisition, HR support companies do not focus in the blue collar space and gray collar space. Help, help us understand. what you do, what your organization specifically does and the market you are trying to support.

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Thad Price:

Yeah, absolutely. So when we started about almost about 10 years ago, we built a job search engine. We built a job board, a traditional job board like you may use Indeed or you may use ZipRecruiter today. It's terrific value for employers. But what we found is that the idea of attracting talent is definitely an art and a science. And the idea of attracting talent isn't just about posting a job on a destination. You know, if you think of like the marketing department today, When you have conversations with your marketing department and they think about how do we get more customers, the conversation doesn't start as I want to post an ad on Yahoo. The conversation-

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Tom Finn:

It does not.

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Thad Price:

Doesn't start that way, right? It's like, what's our ideal customer persona? Where do we want to advertise? What are our KPIs? How do we ensure we can attract the right deal flow to get the right return? What's the acceptable customer acquisition cost to get the right, there's a lot behind the scenes here. in truly standing up a go-to-market function to be able to grow sales. And so that's very different in recruiting because today, still today, it's, I want to post a job ad, but we should have conversations about what are you willing to pay to hire a new team member? What does that budget look like? What are all the KPIs downstream that happen after someone views a job? applies to a job, all these different things. How quickly are we connecting with the candidates? And so I think the big thing that is unique today and why we're excited about the market opportunity ahead is that we're going through this change that is very data-driven. And this change treats the art and science of talent attraction more like a sales and marketing process, right? And having all those deep conversations about your budget and your job advertising budget and what you need and what... what you're looking to, what you need to really achieve your business goals. And if you think about it, what department or what function is more important than your team, the people that you invite to join your organization, that is going to accomplish and that is going to be where you're able to accomplish your goals and you're able to grow your company. And so I think we're in this really interesting... experience where it's about audiences, it's about who we want to attract, it's about where we reach them, how do we use data to reach them, and soon it won't necessarily be, hey, I want to post an ad somewhere. It's, I want to attract this talent audience so I can be effective at my hiring goals and be able to grow my company.

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Tom Finn:

Okay, so I want to look at this from the other direction for a second. So you're talking about, Hey, as a, as an HR leader, as a, as a senior leader in the company, you should look at the market differently. You should look at it like sales and marketing. You should try to approach employees with something that inspires them to want to be at your company. And you have to do that in different ways instead of a job board. Totally get it. Makes sense. I want to look at it as an employee. I want to look at it as a job seeker for a second. So traditionally I go on to indeed. It tells me that I can auto apply for a job. I auto apply to whatever a hundred different jobs. I don't hear back on any of them, right? Maybe I follow up. Maybe I don't depending on who I am and how high up in the corporate ladder I want to go and. And that's it. I apply to 100 jobs, I don't hear back, maybe I talk to some people and that's how I get a job. So how does this help us regular folks that are looking for a job?

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Thad Price:

So the first thing is there's this, what I like to refer to as this clearing opportunity. And the clearing opportunity is the calculus that happens to basically say, I want someone, I wanna apply for this job, I wanna come work for this company. And if you think of the journey that happens through a potential customer, right? They're reading reviews, they're having a conversation with your sales team, they're learning on their own, they're reading everything about your company. They're doing all of this before they fill out the request information form, or before you call them cold to try to get them engaged, and a demo scheduled. This experience is happening behind the scenes, whether you know it or not, from a job seeker perspective, and it should be. And so what we're entering in is this area of job seeker, and I think this is what we've been seeing, right? Think of, you know... I applied to a job and I never hear back. That's the number of the black hole is what we refer to in the industry for years. Everyone has experienced that. And so now we're in this interesting world where we're hearing a lot, especially in the last year about ghosting by candidates, where the employers wanna talk to the candidates and now the candidates aren't responding.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, for sure. It's happened to me, by the way, where I had interviews set up. They have great resumes, they look the part feel the part, exchanged an email or two. And then they just don't show up to the interview and then don't respond to any emails and you're going, huh?

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Thad Price:

And finally, you're like, oh, this is now what happened to job seekers. But I think we have this mismatch that occurs, right? We make it very easy for people to apply to jobs, right? In many cases, it's very easy to apply, which means you don't really have a lot of qualification that happens in this process. Job seekers are thinking of it as, I'm just gonna apply to everything and see what happens, because it's a numbers game. because for years I've applied to jobs and I haven't heard back, right? So I might as well just apply to everything. The employers are now in a situation where the market is tight, especially, so tight, especially for frontline essential workers where they're like, I just want someone to respond to me. And I think what happens is we need to get back to the basics of connecting with the right audiences and get back to the basics of marketing. And what I mean by that is this... this ecosystem that occurs, there is a marketing ecosystem that needs to happen to ensure that you’re connecting and you're efficient and reaching the right candidates. And so a great example is, we were chatting earlier about this is that, I was interviewing a great HR candidate and we were chatting a little bit about job postings and candidate attraction and the art and science of how to reach the right candidates. And she said something that was just, very specific and I immediately said, okay, I may use this, please, because I thought it was very succinct. He said, retention starts with the job posting. I was like, wow, that's amazing. I said, tell me a little bit more about that. She goes, transparency, sharing exactly what the job's about. We've gone through this entire experience as a job seeker where, again, we're applying to everything. But if you take the time to write and to understand how to write. a winning ad, the copy behind the scenes. And then you have the right strategy to reach the right audience. And then downstream after that audience applies and interacts with your business, you have the right engagement process. Then you're entering a recruiting, you're entering recruiting bliss. But first, you have to think about it like sales and marketing, you know, set some set some guidelines, you know, many sales organizations will say if a If a hot lead reaches my sales team, I need to call that hot lead within an hour. We've all seen, we've all read the analysis of how important it is to immediately reach out to a hot lead as fast as possible. In many cases, it's faster than that, faster than an hour. But if we think about that from candidates, I'm a candidate I've applied to a job, it's six days later, I haven't heard back, I don't know what's happening, I've gone. Now I've applied to another job that's maybe similar. And I have heard back from that employer, so all of these things can be applied. One other thing I would say to this is, think of from a product marketing standpoint, think of battle cards, right? How many times in business have we developed battle cards about our competitors and who we're competing against and how our product may be better or where we need to focus to ensure that we can win the deal? that needs to happen with who you're competing for talent with as well. You know, in our industry, a lot of folks don't necessarily understand they're competing with a lot of the gig marketplaces, right? If you aren't thinking about a competitor that Uber and DoorDash and Instacart and others are competitors to reach frontline and essential workers, especially in that, in that area, then you're missing out. You need to think of your marketing strategy and your talent attraction strategy about. What can I provide that these companies can't provide? And what it is it's a career path, right? But without doing that and without having kind of doing that calculus, you won't necessarily see that and understand that and understand your competitive set and who you're fighting with in order to actually win talent to grow your business.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah. Well, well said my friend. Um, I want to get into the details a little bit because you said at the beginning that yes, you have to look at strategy, but the details are what really help us understand how this all works. So let's play out some scenarios here. Um, you talk about essential workers. So you talk about blue collar. Give me five examples of job types that you help support get roles.

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Thad Price:

Delivery driver, cashier, CNA.

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Tom Finn:

What's a CNA?

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Thad Price:

Certified Nursing Assistant.

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Tom Finn:

Okay, certified nursing assistants. Okay, cool.

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Thad Price:

Managers

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Tom Finn:

Managers in what industry?

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Thad Price:

Fast food restaurant managers. Forklift operators, truck drivers.

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Tom Finn:

The heartbeat of America.

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Thad Price:

That's right.

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Tom Finn:

Really the heartbeat, the backbone of what drives this country forward.

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Thad Price:

That's right.

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Tom Finn:

So if I am one of those roles, I'm a forklift driver, I'm in the food industry as a manager, I'm in a early stage nursing kind of assistant role, how do I know you exist? How do I even? find this because you know, outside of you and I and I don't know 100,000 other people this month, we don't always know about your organization and Tauru and, and right, because there's a lot of different businesses out there and our attention span is eight seconds.

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Thad Price:

That's a good point.

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Tom Finn:

So how, like, how do we actually find you? Like, how would somebody in that job demographic find your organization and get a job?

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Thad Price:

Yeah. Well, we started our business as a job board, as a job search engine. So jobs to careers is our job search engine and our job board. And that's our gateway to candidates. And historically has been our gateway to candidates. What we realized in this movement to more of a kind of marketing process, right, this idea of like talent audiences versus posting a job is what we found is that it was about understanding and leveraging data across a large talent supply. and bringing that into one system, one platform, aggregating this talent supply into one platform. And so a great example is a little insider baseball, but a great example is we opened up our job search engine. And as we opened up our job search engine, we allowed for companies to leverage our search and match, what we were powering to match job seekers with. And when we did that, there was a network effect. The network effect was, okay, well now I can use Talroo's job search engine on a website, like jobs to careers. And when we were able to do that, we were able to gain a lot of scale. And so one way to think about it is, again, a little insider baseball is, if you think of in credit card processing, one of the largest companies is of course, Stripe, right? Another large company in credit card processing is Plaid. Well, a great example is Venmo is powered by Plaid. No one knows about Plaid, right? But Venmo is powered by Plaid. And Stripe powers credit card transactions across a lot of e-commerce sites, and you don't necessarily have a relationship with Stripe. And so our thought process was if we could open up our technology, become API first, allow companies to actually build on top of Talroo, then we can gain a lot of scale, and that's what we did. So our goal is to help companies that have online destinations or candidate supply think about bringing jobs to people, wherever they may be, and integrating that job search on their current... in their current destinations.

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Tom Finn:

So you want to become the stripe or plaid, the back room for all of these organizations to be able to use your technology to reach candidates.

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Thad Price:

That's right. And through that, you control the search and match. Just as Stripe and Plagg got very, very good at fraud detection because they were using a network effect across thousands of e-commerce companies to be able to understand, hey, what does this look like? Is this fraud? Our value is we could study all of the job search behavior that's happening across our search engine and get very good at understanding what jobs are right for the right. what employer and what job seeker match is right across a job, across an employer, across an actual job seeker based on their behavior.

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Tom Finn:

Okay, so break this back down for me as a job seeker in a really simple way. So I may not go to jobs to careers. Is that the website jobs?

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Thad Price:

That’s right.

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Tom Finn:

Jobs to careers? I may not go there, but I could go to other job sites and you could be behind the scenes of those job sites collecting data that will help market new jobs to me that may fit my profile.

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Thad Price:

We could be. Yeah, well, not necessarily collecting data, but powering the search. So when employers think about connecting with us, there are certain rules that have to happen. They're looking for a certain price potentially. They're looking to reach certain jobs and advertise certain jobs. And so what I like to refer to is our goal is to kind of bridge the gap between three groups. We have the publishers that are using our platform. We have the employers that are using our platform and we have the job seekers that are using our platform. And so think of Jobs to Careers as one partner or publisher that's using Talroo to be effective at reaching job seekers. So the idea is like an open platform versus a single point destination that is Jobs to Careers.

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Tom Finn:

So what's your take on the competition? What do you think of LinkedIn? And what do you think of Indeed?

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Thad Price:

Yeah, so great businesses. They have done a tremendous job of providing value to businesses and helping a lot of companies hire. I think from our perspective, when we looked at LinkedIn, LinkedIn is for a different knowledge worker vertical, different type of recruiting that happens on LinkedIn that happens on our platform, and probably a little than Indeed as well. Indeed has been... first started as this platform of all jobs, one site, all jobs, right? And aggregating as a job search engine. And now as you look at where they've been moving over the last few years, the experience looks more like an Amazon experience. And so what do I mean by that? It's more of a closed ecosystem, right? It's a buy now, right? Everything needs to happen. It's gone from being a job search engine where you go and search for a job and you, you're redirected to an employer to I need to do all of this in the Indeed ecosystem and I need to buy now and I need to apply now, more like an Amazon experience where you buy everything within Amazon and products just ship out every day and land at your front door. So it's gonna be interesting, I think, over the next few years to see how those businesses continue to innovate and what they're thinking about. I would say that what we think about in our business is it's about outcomes and hires. And at the end of the day, that's what it's all about. Everything else is just a pricing mechanism, right? A click price or an apply price or whatever that is, but it's about outcomes and it's about getting the right people to the right jobs and providing benefit to the employer. And so when you think of the total addressable market for job advertising, last year was about $30 billion. It's a big market. People wouldn't realize that job advertising is that big, but it's needed and it's important because that's how you're able to attract the talent that you need to be able to grow your business. And so I think what's interesting is the staffing market is much larger, like order of magnitude. I think it's roughly like 700 billion. And so I think what you'll see over time is businesses try to move into that, into the staffing. and providing more services to be more efficient, to truly get to the outcome-based experience, which is, I'm delivering a hire, it's outcome-based, this person is efficient and successful. Because that's ultimately what you want, right? You want people to not only, you want them to stick, right? You want to hire them and you want them to stick. I don't think anyone right now is doing a very good job of focusing on, you know, we want to ensure that our talent sticks and the money that we invest to bring them and to train them works for us.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, look, the US Bureau of Labor Statistics from 2022 show that the United States has turnover of 47% in our job categories. Now there's certainly some noise in that data, right? Around part-time versus full-time employees, voluntary turnover versus involuntary turnover, but 47% is still a really high number. So the work that you do on the front end to engage a marketplace, get the right employees, select them, put them in place, make sure that you're true to your word. As you said, treat job functions as sales and marketing to get people in, but do it the right way so that you are selling them the right product, which is their job that they love. All of that has to flow through to job to career. Job to career meaning you took the job, but now we have to develop you, we have to educate you, we have to keep you here so that you have a career. that you can ultimately be super proud of and make a life for yourself is-

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Thad Price:

And I love that you used our brand in that. That was fantastic. Awesome job. That's what we... Ha ha

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Tom Finn:

It wasn't intentional. But it's also the way I look at the world, which I think is so unique. We're sort of symbiotic here in that the whole idea is that you get a job, right? We all have to pay our bills. We all have to put food on the table, pay our rent, right? Get to work, A and B, fine. But at some point, we want to have some purpose in our lives. And we want to give a damn about... the job that we do because it drives us forward. It makes us better citizens in our community. It helps with our mental health, right? We wanna be educated at our workplace so that we can improve. And for the vast majority of human beings, that's the way we operate. We want that in our life. We wanna go from a job to a career and find meaning and purpose. And so what I love about your message is that that's really where you're trying to take people and you're starting with these essential frontline workers in our communities that we see every day. that need that leg up enhancement, right? In their career that support. And I think it's absolutely brilliant. I do wonder though, what is the average pay rate in this space? Like what are you seeing now in terms of economics for people in these job categories?

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Thad Price:

Yeah, it depends. It really depends on the market. A lot of regional differences. I would say that my rough estimate is probably somewhere between 15 and $17 an hour. That's what I would say. We have a lot of data that looks at we parse a lot of job descriptions to understand how to match more effectively with job seekers. And so we normalize a lot of that pay data. to be able to estimate what you need to pay to be successful, but it's very different by market.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, I think 15 to 17 is fair to give a range so that we understand kind of the starting point. If you were sitting down with a head of HR for a national retailer, for example, and they said, hey, FADR starting point is 15 to 17, we need your help. How do we write a job description that wins in that space? Because obviously they're competing for talent and they're competing now against network companies like Uber. right? Or working for Amazon as a delivery person or whatever it is, your favorite door dash, whatever you like, but we're competing in those sorts of functions as well. How do you do it? What do you write that gains people's attention and focus and admiration? So they're fired up to apply to your job.

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Thad Price:

Well, the first thing I would do is go on discovery on who am I competing with and probably look at their job descriptions. Basically see what they're saying in the job descriptions because you have to think about it as someone is looking for something different. There was a, I went to a workshop a number of years ago and this individual wasn't in job search. He was just in business in general and trying to think about how to give feedback on how to post jobs, which I thought was really interesting. And what he said was, when someone looks at a list of jobs, what they're looking for is something that stands out that's different than what they have today. And the way to affect that is through a brand, right? Through the brand lift, or the brand connection that may occur. So a couple of things. First, I would take inventory of who am I competing against. Let's go look at the job descriptions. Let's look at what we could say is different. Then... how we're different and then go to work on the brand. If you do all of that work before you post a job, right? You just don't go post a job, right? You do all of this work beforehand. And then after you get the connection and understand what job title makes sense and how you can appear different and you're paying the right amount in different areas, then you have to start the post, in the post-apply moment. And that is... How quickly are we gonna connect with these candidates? What engagement tools are we using? What does that candidate experience look like? All of that. And so I would say you really have to start, you know, you really have to start at the entire beginning of the process, which is, how are we different? Who are our competitors? How are we different? Who are we looking to attract? What makes a successful candidate an accessible hire? And then start building up. process and a marketing plan around that and ensure that everything downstream connects and makes sense. And then we're watching it, right? And we're saying, hey, we've got to connect within 24 hours to a candidate. If we're not, they're going to go somewhere else. You need to have buy-in across every step of the hiring process.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah. So that's really important buy in, in every step of the hiring process. And that involves a hiring manager. So at what point, if you're in HR leadership, talent and development, people ops, whatever you want to call it. When do you bring in said manager of this hiring team?

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Thad Price:

In the beginning of the process. Because if you don't have that buy-in, it's like anything in life, right? If you don't have that buy-in early, then it becomes, it's just, it's a time-honored, like, yeah, it's a time-honored project management style experience, right? You gotta bring people in earlier in the process and let them know why they're doing it, why it matters to the business and how they're gonna be more successful. You can't expect to go through this process not... include them in this and then expect for them to execute your strategy when they have had, you know, when they haven't been involved in any of it.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah. So I've been a hiring manager at large companies before, and usually the standard job description that's being sent to me from somebody in HR who's super overworked and busy and, and like drowning and we, or we download it from the system, from our internal system, and it's this job title and these codes and these, these type of areas and this whole thing, and the job description is so generic and bad. that as the hiring manager, I have to rewrite the whole thing. I have to start over. I'm literally MSU, which is make stuff up. And you can use a different S in the middle if you'd like. But this is a show for families. We don't want to go too far here, Fed. So we're making stuff up as the hiring manager. And subsequently, I have always felt in corporate roles that I don't always get a ton of support. from those HR professionals in this hiring acquisition phase, other than we've posted it, we're hitting your cost center with a budget item, and we'll screen a few people for you and give you your top candidates that we think fit the bill, right? So how do we bridge that gap between talent acquisition and manager and actually providing value to our internal customer, which is the manager, by the way. Um, and, and actually get that right. I feel like we're not getting that part right as, as an organ, as an industry, as a, as a country, we're not getting that part.

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Thad Price:

Well, like anything in life, it all starts with a conversation. I think the difference is you have to have the conversation at the executive levels of making hiring and talent acquisition strategic. The good news is, as I would say, in the last two or three years, all of these conversations are happening at the board level. What do we need to do to hire people? Why can't we be effective? What needs to happen? And usually when that conversation happens at that level, then people lean in and rethink strategy. and really understand data. I mean, more and more conversations are even being had with CFOs around what is this role, what is not having this position filled costing our business, right? It's a very different, very, very different costing our business in terms of revenue, right? Because so much of HR is seen as a cost center. Oh, I've got to hire someone with no return. That's unfortunate. we have to rethink that, right? No, hiring is a revenue center. If you don't think you're gonna generate some revenue or some benefit off of someone, then you should never hire them. Right, it's not a call center, right? Great people grow great companies. You've got to make sure you've got the right people to accomplish what you're looking to accomplish. And so I think there needs to be a larger discussion in those conversations about, are we truly making this strategic? These are the problems, right? These are benchmarks that we need to follow. So again, starts with a conversation and I would... The advice I typically give businesses is start a task force, a cross-functional task force. I've also shared feedback with talent acquisition leaders and recruiting managers to take a sales manager out for lunch. Hop on a Zoom call, go out, go for a happy hour. Pick their brain about how they think about sales. how you could apply that to your world to be more successful. I think what we will find is talent acquisition in HR is going to look very different a few years from now, very different. And the businesses that succeed will be the ones that think about this as a marketing and sales process. And so start learning about it, reading about it, understanding more about sales, understanding about what we should track, how we should track. Because the first thing is, If you want to improve your hiring process, if you got to make sure you're tracking what you need to be tracking, right? Because then you don't really know if you're making any changes that make any sense or not.

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Tom Finn:

I had a manager that I work with and you spurred this story. I had a manager that I work with who told me at one point, she said you know, stay in your lane and she was a division leader and I was in charge of revenue and I said you know, my lane is the entire freeway because my job is to go out and make it rain. And so I own the freeway. So I will not stay in my lane. And I want to pass that along to other people in talent acquisition and HR. Don't stay in your lane. You own the freeway and get out there and figure out, like you said, that get out there and figure out how to approach the business, like a sales and marketing professional to bring in the best talent that's out there and improve the revenue side and the cost side of your organization. When you do that. You're not a human resources partner anymore. You're a business partner and a strategic friend of the senior leadership team who actually gets it. And I think that's where you're taking us is we've got to be more strategic in our roles in organizations. We've got to get out of this stay in my lane philosophy, and we've got to get to owning the freeway and owning talent and really partnering with managers at a deep and meaningful level that drives operating results. How'd I do?

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Thad Price:

That was fantastic. Great job. This has been a lot of fun.

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Tom Finn:

Oh man, I hope I summed it up well. This has been awesome and I appreciate you. I appreciate the great work that you're doing. I think Talroo is a fantastic company. Check it out and Thad will tell you where to get in contact with him. What's the best way to reach out to you, my friend?

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Thad Price:

Sure, you can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. Happy to connect and, you know, potentially help you in some of your hiring efforts. Thanks so much.

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Tom Finn:

Yeah, we'll put Thad’s information in the show notes, and his organization, um, how you can get to jobs to careers as well. And all of those links available, so that you can support whether you're on the hiring side, uh, your organization in a new way, or if you are looking for a role and you are a great candidate in the spaces that we talked about, we'll certainly get you connected to Thad,  as well. So thank you very much for the great work you're doing my friend.

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Thad Price:

Thanks, Tom. Take care.

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Tom Finn:

And thank you everybody for tuning in to the Talent Empowerment Podcast. We hope you've unpacked a few tips and tricks and that you love your job. Get ready to dive back into all things, career and happiness on the next episode. We'll see you then.